Comments on Summorum Pontificum: Trad bloggers finally touching the Third Rail

"Then they must be trained."

Obvious...

2008-10-15T11:10:00.000-04:00

"Then they must be trained."

Obviously. As I pointed out in my series, though, it will take a few years.

"...simply not be possible at this point to have t...

2008-10-15T11:06:00.000-04:00

"...simply not be possible at this point to have the TLM at every parish, since the overwhelming majority of priests of the Latin Rite are not trained for it."

Then they must be trained.

God bless you.

"Interesting metaphor, that Third Rail. Is this...

2008-10-14T16:43:00.000-04:00
"Interesting metaphor, that Third Rail. Is this a reference to "whoever eats the Pope, dies?"

third rail

Function:
noun
Date:
1888

1 : a metal rail through which electric current is led to the motors of an electric vehicle (as a subway car) 2 : a controversial issue usually avoided by politicians

The concern raised by Cardinal Hoyos was not about...

2008-10-14T11:37:00.000-04:00
The concern raised by Cardinal Hoyos was not about Catholics wanting the TLM in every parish. It is the way they are going about their requests. Witness this from an earlier post:

Cardinal Castrillon, whose commission works with communities using the old rite, said his office continues to receive letters requesting the Tridentine rite be used not just at one Mass a week but at every Mass, and that such Masses be available not just at one church in a town but at every church.

He said he even got a letter demanding that Rome's Basilica of St. Mary Major be dedicated exclusively to the celebration of the Tridentine-rite Mass.

Such people, he said, are "insatiable, incredible."

"They do not know the harm they are doing," Cardinal Castrillon said, adding that when the Vatican does not accept their demands immediately "they go directly to the Internet" and post their complaints.

Keep in mind that there is a difference between someone's personal wishes, and an outright directive. There is also a difference between making a request, and making a demand. It would simply not be possible at this point to have the TLM at every parish, since the overwhelming majority of priests of the Latin Rite are not trained for it.

Interesting metaphor, that Third Rail. Is this a r...

2008-10-14T11:25:00.000-04:00
Interesting metaphor, that Third Rail. Is this a reference to "whoever eats the Pope, dies?" I agree that a little humility on the part of the hierarchy is called for when looking for the source of frustration (and don't forget those disobedient bishops). As for Hoyos' complaint about those who want a Traditional Mass in every parish, was this the same mouth that uttered the words that the Holy Father wants that Mass offered in every parish????

It would be nice if some comments were actually ab...

2008-10-13T10:37:00.000-04:00
It would be nice if some comments were actually about the posting and not about the choice of words in one particular sentence. Everybody knows who "the schismatics" refers to... even if they are not technically schismatic.

I think Damien's article is right on the money... the anger and frustration of traditionalist (including "those schismatics") comes from the disconnect between the tone of Summorum and the lack of any significant follow up. One would think if you were going to issue such a revolutionary document, it would be followed by a similarly decisive initiative to implement it's conditions. Instead, it seems to be something that was just "put out there", like so many other documents from the Holy See.

kat:

You really, REALLY, need to read my se...

2008-10-10T12:40:00.000-04:00
kat:

You really, REALLY, need to read my series. It won't answer all your questions, but it will put some things in perspective. Anyone who expects this to happen right away is setting themselves up for disappointment. In all humility, I explain why.

But where have we gotten when in the majority of o...

2008-10-10T11:52:00.000-04:00
But where have we gotten when in the majority of our country (and the world) laypeople still have to beg, plead, and pony up great sums of $$ for the supposed "right" to the TLM? Yes, lots of big cities have 1-2 Masses, but the rest of us are held hostage by hostile bishops, liberal priests, and a virtual silence from Rome.

If there is nothing to report, they won't. "No new...

2008-10-09T13:19:00.000-04:00
If there is nothing to report, they won't. "No news is good news." Right now things are in a state of negotiation. That's my impression. I would be surprised by any conclusive statement coming out of Rome at this point, barring either complete accord, or impassible discord.

"until an official decree says that a state of ...

2008-10-09T10:23:00.000-04:00
"until an official decree says that a state of formal schism exists, it doesn't."

Agreed.

This is another instance where leadership and clarity, at the highest levels of the Vatican, is woefully lacking.

"We were handed a written note, and the cardina...

2008-10-09T09:50:00.000-04:00
"We were handed a written note, and the cardinal asked me to read it aloud in front of everybody. In this letter which really sounded like an ultimatum, it basically said: ‘Up to now, I stated that you were not schismatics, but henceforth I will no longer be able to say so. Today, you must accept the clear conditions which we are going to impose upon you.’"

"It basically said..." suggests a reference to paraphrasing. Certain actions and remarks may suggest a "schismatic mentality," but until an official decree says that a state of formal schism exists, it doesn't.

The "quotation" is Bishop Fellay's recollection of...

2008-10-09T09:44:00.000-04:00
The "quotation" is Bishop Fellay's recollection of Cardinal Hoyos' statement at their meeting this past summer. See the previous post here, "Concerning the Ultimatum from Cardinal Castrillon Hoyos."

2008-10-09T09:41:00.000-04:00
This comment has been removed by the author.

The "quotation" was not a literal one, but a summa...

2008-10-09T06:56:00.000-04:00
The "quotation" was not a literal one, but a summary from the bishop in question of what was said. There is no more reason to consider the SSPX in a formal schism now, than before this conversation took place.

Not that that could not change. If it does, believe me, you'll know.

So is it official?
Are the FSSPX schismatic?

2008-10-08T16:21:00.000-04:00
So is it official?
Are the FSSPX schismatic?

"Whom, exactly, are the schismatics?"

2008-10-08T13:59:00.000-04:00
"Whom, exactly, are the schismatics?"

Sorry, that's above my pay grade ;-)

"Up to now, I stated that you were not schismatics, but henceforth I will no longer be able to say so."

"With the exception of the schismatics"

Mr ...

2008-10-08T13:39:00.000-04:00
"With the exception of the schismatics"

Mr Kopp,
Whom, exactly. are the schismatics?

And

Yes to answer your final question.

Comments on Summorum Pontificum: Trad bloggers finally touching the Third Rail

"Then they must be trained."Obvious...

"...simply not be possible at this point to have t...

"Interesting metaphor, that Third Rail. Is this...

The concern raised by Cardinal Hoyos was not about...

Interesting metaphor, that Third Rail. Is this a r...

It would be nice if some comments were actually ab...

kat:You really, REALLY, need to read my se...

But where have we gotten when in the majority of o...

If there is nothing to report, they won't. "No new...

"until an official decree says that a state of ...

"We were handed a written note, and the cardina...

The "quotation" is Bishop Fellay's recollection of...

The "quotation" was not a literal one, but a summa...

So is it official?Are the FSSPX schismatic?

"Whom, exactly, are the schismatics?" 2008-10-08T13:59:00.000-04:00 "Whom, exactly, are the schismatics?"Sorry, that's above my pay grade ;-)"Up to now, I stated that you were not schismatics, but henceforth I will no longer be able to say so."

"With the exception of the schismatics"Mr ...

"Then they must be trained."

Obvious...

kat:

You really, REALLY, need to read my se...

So is it official?
Are the FSSPX schismatic?

"Whom, exactly, are the schismatics?"

2008-10-08T13:59:00.000-04:00
"Whom, exactly, are the schismatics?"

Sorry, that's above my pay grade ;-)

"Up to now, I stated that you were not schismatics, but henceforth I will no longer be able to say so."

"With the exception of the schismatics"

Mr ...