tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6570809348314913884.post3144068143865581962..comments2009-10-05T13:47:39.602-04:00Comments on Summorum Pontificum: Concerning the Ultimatum from Cardinal Castrillon ...Patrick Archboldhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13230114519933936165noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6570809348314913884.post-11804346316066509712008-12-09T21:36:00.000-05:002008-12-09T21:36:00.000-05:00The Vatican seems to have no understanding of the ...The Vatican seems to have no understanding of the degree of seriousness which Bp Fellay has about the conditions necessary to allow the SSPX to return to full Communion with Rome.<BR/><BR/>I believe they thought they were dealing with a political hack, rather than a man of principle, who would cave the moment he was thrown a bone. They have failed to understand with whom they are dealing.<BR/><BR/>If and when they take the proper measure of Bp Fellay, progress can occur. At that point the Vatican must decide if it is willing to meet the stated conditions. If they are, then the SSPX will quickly be able to join with Rome to begin restoring the Church to its past glory.Griderhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03761768584664642328noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6570809348314913884.post-78999477054034579342008-10-01T15:54:00.000-04:002008-10-01T15:54:00.000-04:00Summorum Pontificum is the reform of the reform an...Summorum Pontificum is the reform of the reform and it is the faith that informs the liturgy. And as Bishop Fellay has pointed out, there is no evidence that Rome has abandoned its modernist convictions. Where is this reform of the reform leading? At the recent World Youth Day in Sydney in the crypt of St. Mary’s Cathedral, Pope Benedict declared to an ecumenical assembly that “The road of ecumenism ultimately points towards a common celebration of the Eucharist… we can be sure that a common Eucharist one day would only strengthen our resolve to love and serve one another in imitation of our Lord…. We must guard against any temptation to view doctrine as divisive and hence an impediment to the seemingly more pressing and immediate task of improving the world in which we live…. As ‘fellow citizens’ of the ‘household of God,’ Christians must work together to ensure that the edifice stands strong so that others will be attracted to enter and discover the treasures of grace within.”<BR/><BR/>So all schismatics and heretics are “fellow citizens of the household of God” that must have a “common celebration of the Eucharist,” indifferent to doctrine and dedicated to “improving the world in which we live.” With each new change to the 1962 Missal, every true traditional Catholic will undergo a crisis of conscience as to whether that particular change will constitute an unacceptable compromise of faith in the liturgical march toward a new ecumenical liturgy. So you think the SSPX are schismatics? Apparently the word has lost any meaning in Rome because we are all “fellow citizens of the household of God.”<BR/><BR/>DowneyDWhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00568662976904513374noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6570809348314913884.post-6175629425326937032008-10-01T09:34:00.000-04:002008-10-01T09:34:00.000-04:00Let us remind Bishop Fellay of the following state...Let us remind Bishop Fellay of the following statement by Cardinal Hoyos, which clearly shows the mind of this "perfectly liberal" Pope:<BR/><BR/><I>It is now clear that Catholics have a juridical right to the more ancient liturgical rites, and that parish priests and bishops must accept the petitions and the requests of the faithful who ask for it. This is the express will of the Supreme Pontiff, legally established in Summorum Pontificum in a manner that must be respected by ecclesiastical superiors and local ordinaries alike.</I><BR/><BR/>Bishop Fellay needn't worry about a formal declaration of schism (although perhaps deep down he desires it). There is no need for it. The SSPX bishops seem to being doing everything possible to make themselves and the Society irrelevant.Confiteorhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09302062028980642745noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6570809348314913884.post-25477477942450042182008-10-01T09:26:00.000-04:002008-10-01T09:26:00.000-04:00...he is perfectly liberal ...He dares to say this...<I>...he is perfectly liberal ...</I><BR/><BR/>He dares to say this about the Pope who has unshackled the Mass of All Time after its 40 years of imprisonment. He dares to say this about a Pope who has made Eucharistic Adoration a veritable symbol of his pontificate.<BR/><BR/>Not only is Bishop Fellay disrespectful, he shows all the intellectual nuance of a typical Benedict-basher on Angelqueen.Confiteorhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09302062028980642745noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6570809348314913884.post-3066650873474328472008-09-30T15:50:00.000-04:002008-09-30T15:50:00.000-04:00The phase “Up to now, I stated that you were not s...<I>The phase “Up to now, I stated that you were not schismatics, but henceforth I will no longer be able to say so" attributed to Cardinal Castrillon Hoyos was not made to anybody.</I><BR/><BR/>Good catch.<BR/><BR/><B>Msgr. Fellay states:</B><BR/><I>Next, I had to commit myself, in this same letter, to respect the person of the pope. I suppose it meant that he must not be insulted, but if you consider it an insult to say that he is perfectly liberal, right after a visit to the USA, during which he did nothing but praise the American State, declaring that religious liberty was great… Truly, you cannot find a statement more liberal than this. I see nothing insulting in my words.</I><BR/><BR/>If the Pope really did praise religious liberty then yes, his statement is liberal (although I think one can easily find a statement even more liberal), but it is still insulting, and illogical, to refer to His Holiness as "perfectly liberal." Perhaps logic is not high on the list of subjects taught at Econe; logically, for the Pope to be "perfectly liberal" then he would have to make a liberal statement every time he opened his mouth! His Excellency also does not seem to distinguish between attacking the person of the Pope and attacking his words.Red-Letter Manhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/18424510747759223459noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6570809348314913884.post-86831775318467409272008-09-30T12:24:00.000-04:002008-09-30T12:24:00.000-04:00Does questioning a "pastoral council" that wanted ...Does questioning a "pastoral council" that wanted to shove the Virgin Mary to the back of the bookshelf because of the "difficulty she presents to ecumenism" constitute schismatic behavior? All the debates as to the SSPX status are mute if you don't understand the well documented history of this council. They do have their eccentricities but don't throw the baby out with the bathwater as to their, and what should be all Catholics, fundamental concerns about the Church's duty to the status viatorus.pertinaxhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10222716720423098021noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6570809348314913884.post-36649001945092698862008-09-30T11:27:00.000-04:002008-09-30T11:27:00.000-04:00The phase “Up to now, I stated that you were not s...The phase “Up to now, I stated that you were not schismatics, but henceforth I will no longer be able to say so" attributed to Cardinal Castrillon Hoyos was not made to anybody. It is Bishop Felley's personal interpretation of a note he was handed. It would have been more helpful if the Bishop had quoted from the note rather than from his impression of it.Charleshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11574095733931083250noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6570809348314913884.post-15120029791289536622008-09-29T22:37:00.000-04:002008-09-29T22:37:00.000-04:00So does this statement by is Eminence mean that th...<I>So does this statement by is Eminence mean that the FSSPX is now officially schismatic?</I><BR/><BR/>I don't see how a statement made in private can be official.Red-Letter Manhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/18424510747759223459noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6570809348314913884.post-46510074746933292222008-09-29T19:36:00.000-04:002008-09-29T19:36:00.000-04:00"So does this statement by is Eminence mean that t...<I>"So does this statement by is Eminence mean that the FSSPX is now officially schismatic?"</I><BR/><BR/>It certainly reopens the debate.Brian Kopphttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02575906703463685178noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6570809348314913884.post-55834920360410202932008-09-29T17:18:00.000-04:002008-09-29T17:18:00.000-04:00“Up to now, I stated that you were not schismatics...“Up to now, I stated that you were not schismatics, but henceforth I will no longer be able to say so"<BR/><BR/>So does this statement by is Eminence mean that the FSSPX is now officially schismatic?Dan Hunterhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14823464458933233001noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6570809348314913884.post-15622203357471266442008-09-29T14:15:00.000-04:002008-09-29T14:15:00.000-04:00Let us all carry on praying to the Holy Spirit, on...Let us all carry on praying to the Holy Spirit, only he can find a way though this messBarryhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05896336670572980686noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6570809348314913884.post-72965681011165840382008-09-29T12:33:00.000-04:002008-09-29T12:33:00.000-04:00The SSPX "entering" the Church is non sequitur. T...The SSPX "entering" the Church is non sequitur. Their position on Vatican Council II keeps them exiled from this neo-trad administration. I wrestled with this for years and after objectively researching their position and interviewing bishops who attended the council, reflecting after retirement, I've been led to the conclusion that to understand the council spirit and the SSPX position we need to understand the handling of the schema on the Virgin Mary and its theological underpinings. I was told to connect the dots of LaSalette/Fatima and the schema and that this is still in play today despite overtures to the contrary.pertinaxhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10222716720423098021noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6570809348314913884.post-31884362503226883622008-09-29T09:34:00.000-04:002008-09-29T09:34:00.000-04:00If this is what the SSPX feels it can contribute t...If this is what the SSPX feels it can contribute to the Church, perhaps it is best to let them be. It is somewhat like saying that you care about a terminally ill friend, but then behind their back tell others about how stupid they were for allowing themselves to get sick! Either they care about the church and want to help, or else they are satisfied to sit on the sidelines and criticize. I really don't get it, but have gotten over it instead.Chironomohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13024533507945352862noreply@blogger.com