tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6570809348314913884.post2683208975163238256..comments2009-10-08T23:10:11.706-04:00Comments on Summorum Pontificum: Five Conditions For Fellay?Patrick Archboldhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13230114519933936165noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6570809348314913884.post-56374344699644338322008-06-26T03:25:00.000-04:002008-06-26T03:25:00.000-04:00He who divides: Benedict XVI!He who divides: Benedict XVI!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6570809348314913884.post-26507592474202322162008-06-25T20:23:00.000-04:002008-06-25T20:23:00.000-04:00"...If true, the Vatican is looking to have a real..."...If true, the Vatican is looking to have a real negotiating partner. Not someone who will say the right things to the Holy See in private and then throws bombs..."<BR/><BR/>Great summation sentence! I will have to borrow it as the sentence sums why I have become skeptical of SSPX after many years of support.Christopher Mandzoknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6570809348314913884.post-26900147719694608272008-06-25T16:01:00.000-04:002008-06-25T16:01:00.000-04:00In response to Anonymous P.K.T.P.: granted, Bishop...In response to Anonymous P.K.T.P.: granted, Bishop Fellay may have happened to be at Ecône and Paolo Luigi Rodari may have known that but this falls short of a complete explanation. First, how reliable is a journalist how is desperately wrong about the HQ of a society he claims to inform his readers about? Second, Rodari says he called Felay in Ecône not just the other day but also "in other occasions in the past" (I checked the Italian original: "come altre volte in passato").<BR/><BR/>As P.T.K.P. says, there is a point in questioning the reliability of such a report. I am not saying the journalist is lying. I just don't know but as a matter of sheer fact, such a guy is hardly reliable.Stéphanehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00093434777594240315noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6570809348314913884.post-76113924550440557482008-06-25T15:42:00.000-04:002008-06-25T15:42:00.000-04:00In response to the last poster, it may be that Bis...In response to the last poster, it may be that Bishop Fellay was at Ecône and the reporter knew this. But I agree that the reliability should be questioned. Only yesterday, idiot journalists, lying as usual, 'reported' that a 'prelature', which is definitely not the right structure, was being offered. How wrong they were.<BR/><BR/>P.K.T.P.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6570809348314913884.post-68678569541741980102008-06-25T15:11:00.000-04:002008-06-25T15:11:00.000-04:00Hum, with respect I'd like to express skepticism a...Hum, with respect I'd like to express skepticism about this report. First, Ecône is not the headquarters of the SSPX, it is Menzingen (near Zurich). And the point is that Bishop Fellay, as Superior General, resides at Menzingen, not Ecône.<BR/>So, how reliable is your report?...Stéphanehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00093434777594240315noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6570809348314913884.post-43888308303709178142008-06-25T13:57:00.000-04:002008-06-25T13:57:00.000-04:00On one of the other comments here:As superior-gene...On one of the other comments here:<BR/><BR/>As superior-general of the S.S.P.X, Bishop Fellay has the warrant and the authority to negotiate on behalf of the S.S.P.X. While agreements on juridical structures and agreements regarding doctrine will, for practical reasons, require consultation with and probabaly even agreement from the other bishops, it is Bishop Fellay alone who speaks on behalf of the Society.<BR/><BR/>In the past, one superior-general of the Society was not even a bishop. At that time, Fr. Schmidberger was superior-general and the bishops took orders from him. <BR/><BR/>The Society has a constitution and a system of authority. Clearly, Bishop Fellay as the authority and right to sign these five points on behalf of the entire S.S.P.X. It is probable that he will not do so at least without consulting the other bishops and the other superiors of the Society.<BR/><BR/>P.K.T.P.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6570809348314913884.post-57413200473057780002008-06-25T13:51:00.000-04:002008-06-25T13:51:00.000-04:00These journalists get everything wrong. Bishop Fe...These journalists get everything wrong. Bishop Fellay does not just represent Bishop Fellay; he is the superior-general of the S.S.P.X. Obviously, what he agrees to he will agree to on behalf of the Society, not just on behalf of himself. <BR/><BR/>I do agree with Tornielli that this is a preparation for a lifting of the declaration of penalties. Very soon, the three important anniversaries are arriving (of the unapproved 1988 consecrations, of the declaration of excommunication, and of S.P.). Rome, I think, hopes to take action by withdrawing the penalties. The reference in the letter to the Pope's generosity may be a signal that he plans to do even more than lift the declarations. Every word of such declarations is carefully considered and crafted in advance. Little is purely accidental. I think that the Pope plans to demonstrate--yet again--his charitableness; he plans to prove it to the world, thereby making it harder and harder for the Society hardliners to scorn Rome.<BR/><BR/>Once again, Rome needs a response from the S.S.P.X in order to justify lifting the declarations of penalties. Rome will look foolish to the world if she starts bargaining everything away without at least something token in return. The Holy See must not *appear* to be giving away the farm for nothing. Hence the five points.<BR/><BR/>When Fellay signs the document, he will do so on behalf of the entire S.S.P.X. Rome will then not only withdraw the decaration of excommunications of 1988 against the four bishops; it will annul all the other penalties imposed since 1976. <BR/><BR/>I am hoping that Rome will also declare authoritatively that Society Masses fulfil the obligation. I mean a declaration from the Pope and not some dubious opinion from the P.C.E.D. But that may be too much to hope for at this point.<BR/><BR/>It can be inferred from the indefinite article in the fifth point that more will be expected of the S.S.P.X before full regularisation occurs. This will require some agreement regarding the status of the Vatican II documents.<BR/><BR/>P.K.T.P.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6570809348314913884.post-37651058827229199652008-06-25T12:36:00.000-04:002008-06-25T12:36:00.000-04:00Is it necessary that the entire SSPX return to ful...Is it necessary that the entire SSPX return to full communion "en masse"? Does any agreement have to be agreed to by ALL of their Bishops and leaders, or is it sufficient to appeal to enough of them to return that the others would be "left out in the cold" if they continue to hold out. Since many of the faithful now have the option of attending Mass at a TLM in full communion with Rome, and many will surely do so over time, would the SSPX not have a serious fear that they will become marginalized by their own faithful if they don't return to full communion? Surely Fellay is worrying about this...Chironomohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13024533507945352862noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6570809348314913884.post-31141275121952370512008-06-25T11:51:00.000-04:002008-06-25T11:51:00.000-04:00This is a fascinating development. If these 5 cond...This is a fascinating development. <BR/><BR/>If these 5 conditions are in response to the relatively measured comments of Bishop Fellay, one must wonder what conditions they would place on the return of Bishop Williamson himself.Brian Kopphttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02575906703463685178noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6570809348314913884.post-54263971429833574972008-06-25T11:49:00.000-04:002008-06-25T11:49:00.000-04:00We were always taught that schism is even worse th...We were always taught that schism is even worse than heresy...for the devil is precisely: he who divides.<BR/><BR/>There is one other thought I have and that is that there is such a thing (I believe firmly) as the sin of 'overcorrectness!' In other words, we can do everything perfectly...have the correct (perfect liturgy) Holy Mass, correct (ancient) celebration of all the Holy Sacraments, etc. etc. etc.---and yet have no charity. This is one of THE principal dangers of ALL such 'super-correct' groups. They have everything correct (right) except that which is most needful: the charity of Christ! Sad! Let us pray that they will return and bring their love for the Holy Mass and tradition back with them and share them with the entire Church.<BR/><BR/>In His Holy Name,<BR/>Fr. PiusAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com